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South Africa

GNU gives SA a honeymoon period for keeping its Agoa status, say analysts

New Trade and Industry Minister Parks Tau is fighting for SA’s continued participation in Agoa at the Agoa Forum in Washington this week.
GNU gives SA a honeymoon period for keeping its Agoa status, say analysts The formation of the Government of National Unity (GNU) has secured South Africa a “honeymoon period” for retaining its privileged access to US markets under the African Growth and Opportunity Act (Agoa). This is the view of US politicians and South African trade analysts on the eve of the annual Agoa Forum which runs from Wednesday, 24 July to Friday, 26 July in Washington.  South Africa’s continued participation in Agoa and its good diplomatic relations with the US generally have been under attack in the US, mainly from conservative Republican members of Congress — though with some Democratic support — who have tabled legislation that would oblige the Biden administration to conduct a comprehensive review of US-SA bilateral relations that includes an assessment of whether SA is undermining US national security and foreign policy interests. These legislators have been antagonised over the past two years by the ANC government’s friendships with Russia, China and Iran — and its perceived hostility to Israel, particularly in taking it to the International Court of Justice on charges of genocide in Gaza. If the legislation proposed by Republican Representative John James passes and the Biden administration is forced to review US-SA relations and particularly to investigate whether SA has undermined US national security and foreign policy interests, this could jeopardise SA’s continued participation in Agoa. Read more: Pretoria walks tense tightrope on US relations under shadow of Russia, Iran, China alignment This legislation, open to eligible sub-Saharan African countries, gave duty-free access to the lucrative US market for more than $3-billion worth of SA exports in 2022, mainly motor vehicles, fruit and wine. SA exports in 2023 under Agoa reached $2.9-billion by November. [caption id="attachment_2288186" align="alignnone" width="2068"]gnu sa agoa Trade and Industry Minister Parks Tau. (Photo: Gallo Images / Luba Lesolle)[/caption] But even without the specific legislation which has been proposed by  James, Agoa itself makes provision for US legislators or officials to review a country’s participation at any time. The Agoa programme as a whole is up for renewal next year and as things stand, it seems likely to be renewed — and almost certainly if current US Vice-President Kamala Harris or another Democratic Party candidate wins election in November. It is less clear what a victory for the unpredictable Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump would mean for the future of Agoa.

GNU influence

New Trade, Industry and Competition Minister Parks Tau is in Washington to attend the Agoa Forum and more generally to lobby the Biden administration and Congress to save Agoa and keep relations between SA and the US on track. He told Bloomberg, “We intend to engage senators and also members of Congress about what our position is on a whole range of issues as the South African government on the back of the Agoa Act, but also taking into account bilateral relations.” The formation of the GNU constitutes a more eloquent argument in favour of SA’s continued Agoa rights than anything Tau could say, unless, of course, the GNU is part of his argument.  “I do not think the GNU has secured SA’s long-term eligibility, but there will certainly be something of a honeymoon period as we watch to see the direction the GNU charts in the coming months,” a Washington insider told Daily Maverick. “As a result of this honeymoon period, I would expect SA to keep its eligibility for next year. “However, the concerns that exist here about the ANC’s ties with Moscow, Beijing and Tehran and its consistent anti-Israel sentiment are strong and pending a significant shift in foreign policy from Minister [Ronald] Lamola (which we do not expect), will remain. “This will keep the ‘undermining US national security’ argument relevant as it pertains to Agoa eligibility going forward. If the GNU were to collapse these concerns would only be strengthened.” The Democratic Alliance has played a significant role, both directly and indirectly, in buying SA time on Agoa. Its participation as the ANC’s main GNU partner is in itself a major factor. The party’s deputy minister of trade, industry and competition, Andrew Whitfield, will also attend the Agoa Forum in Washington. The DA has conducted four missions to the US over the past year to lobby for SA to retain its Agoa privileges. In part, the DA is motivated by the fact that many farmers in the DA-controlled Western Cape export to the US, enjoying Agoa privileges. 

Review in question

One of the main threats to SA emanates from the US-South Africa Bilateral Relations Review Act which James introduced into the House of Representatives in March. It called for the full review of US-SA relations by the Biden administration and an investigation into whether SA’s warm relations with the US’s enemies were undermining US national security and foreign policy interests. The Bill passed the House Foreign Affairs Committee, but has not reached the floor. To accelerate the reviews, James reintroduced the operative clauses of his Bill last month as amendments to the National Defense Authorization Act. The legislation authorises the massive US defence budget and has to be passed fairly promptly. James’ amendments on South Africa were passed by the Republican Party-controlled House. They now have to also be adopted by the Democratic Party Senate. Negotiations to reconcile the House and Senate defence authorisation Bills are under way. The formation of the GNU has created some ambivalence among Republican legislators about this legislation. Coincidentally, but perhaps significantly, the amendments by James to the Defence Authorization Bill passed the House on the very day the GNU was formed. That has prompted some concern that a full review by the administration into US-SA relations could undermine SA’s Agoa status just as the GNU is beginning to restore US confidence in SA. However, some supporters of James’ legislation believe that a thorough US examination of SA’s relations with Russia, China and Iran — including a probe into untested allegations that some of them might have been meddling in local politics — could still be useful. Eckart Naumann, an independent economist and associate at the Trade Law Centre, told Daily Maverick that an investigation by the US administration into US-SA relations, even if it concluded that SA had undermined US foreign policy and security interests, would not necessarily lead to SA being kicked out of Agoa. “Perhaps put on notice, perhaps warned, perhaps monitored even more closely. I don’t think that it’s in the best interest of the US to kick SA out — as tempting as it may be. It would come at too high a cost, politically and to business, both domestic and foreign investors.” Naumann is also not convinced that James’s legislation will pass in the Democratic Party-controlled Senate.

Best hope, Democrats

Hanging over the whole debate is the uncertainty about the outcome of the presidential elections. Biden’s withdrawal from the contest has raised the hopes of many South Africans that a Democratic Party candidate — either Harris or someone else — will defeat Trump, who remains ahead in the polls. Trump’s position on Agoa and relations with SA more generally is unknown, but most commentators suspect his positions would be less favourable to SA than those of any Democratic president. Donald MacKay, the CEO of XA Global Trade Advisors, believes that SA-US relations, including SA’s continued participation in Agoa, depend very much on who becomes the next US president. “I think if it’s Trump, our prospects are fairly slim. If it’s anyone but Trump, then probably quite a bit better. I think that affects the outcome of all of this more than anything that Tau can do.” MacKay adds that, “All bets are off if Trump wins. Firstly, he’s just wild. No one knows what the hell he’s going to do. “He doesn’t appear to have any sort of principled stance on anything. So, I have no idea what he would do. “I would just say that the chances of renewal [of Agoa] under Trump are far less than they are under a Democrat president.” MacKay also believes that the formation of the GNU is a positive. “I think the perception is that the GNU makes the government more business-friendly and more investment-friendly. Whether that is reality, it’s just too early to call.” He believes the fact that the DA has an agriculture minister, a deputy trade and industry minister and a deputy finance minister is helping to keep the US on side. DM

The formation of the Government of National Unity (GNU) has secured South Africa a “honeymoon period” for retaining its privileged access to US markets under the African Growth and Opportunity Act (Agoa). This is the view of US politicians and South African trade analysts on the eve of the annual Agoa Forum which runs from Wednesday, 24 July to Friday, 26 July in Washington. 

South Africa’s continued participation in Agoa and its good diplomatic relations with the US generally have been under attack in the US, mainly from conservative Republican members of Congress — though with some Democratic support — who have tabled legislation that would oblige the Biden administration to conduct a comprehensive review of US-SA bilateral relations that includes an assessment of whether SA is undermining US national security and foreign policy interests.

These legislators have been antagonised over the past two years by the ANC government’s friendships with Russia, China and Iran — and its perceived hostility to Israel, particularly in taking it to the International Court of Justice on charges of genocide in Gaza.

If the legislation proposed by Republican Representative John James passes and the Biden administration is forced to review US-SA relations and particularly to investigate whether SA has undermined US national security and foreign policy interests, this could jeopardise SA’s continued participation in Agoa.

Read more: Pretoria walks tense tightrope on US relations under shadow of Russia, Iran, China alignment

This legislation, open to eligible sub-Saharan African countries, gave duty-free access to the lucrative US market for more than $3-billion worth of SA exports in 2022, mainly motor vehicles, fruit and wine. SA exports in 2023 under Agoa reached $2.9-billion by November.

gnu sa agoa Trade and Industry Minister Parks Tau. (Photo: Gallo Images / Luba Lesolle)



But even without the specific legislation which has been proposed by  James, Agoa itself makes provision for US legislators or officials to review a country’s participation at any time.

The Agoa programme as a whole is up for renewal next year and as things stand, it seems likely to be renewed — and almost certainly if current US Vice-President Kamala Harris or another Democratic Party candidate wins election in November. It is less clear what a victory for the unpredictable Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump would mean for the future of Agoa.

GNU influence


New Trade, Industry and Competition Minister Parks Tau is in Washington to attend the Agoa Forum and more generally to lobby the Biden administration and Congress to save Agoa and keep relations between SA and the US on track.

He told Bloomberg, “We intend to engage senators and also members of Congress about what our position is on a whole range of issues as the South African government on the back of the Agoa Act, but also taking into account bilateral relations.”

The formation of the GNU constitutes a more eloquent argument in favour of SA’s continued Agoa rights than anything Tau could say, unless, of course, the GNU is part of his argument. 

“I do not think the GNU has secured SA’s long-term eligibility, but there will certainly be something of a honeymoon period as we watch to see the direction the GNU charts in the coming months,” a Washington insider told Daily Maverick.

“As a result of this honeymoon period, I would expect SA to keep its eligibility for next year.

“However, the concerns that exist here about the ANC’s ties with Moscow, Beijing and Tehran and its consistent anti-Israel sentiment are strong and pending a significant shift in foreign policy from Minister [Ronald] Lamola (which we do not expect), will remain.

“This will keep the ‘undermining US national security’ argument relevant as it pertains to Agoa eligibility going forward. If the GNU were to collapse these concerns would only be strengthened.”

The Democratic Alliance has played a significant role, both directly and indirectly, in buying SA time on Agoa. Its participation as the ANC’s main GNU partner is in itself a major factor. The party’s deputy minister of trade, industry and competition, Andrew Whitfield, will also attend the Agoa Forum in Washington.

The DA has conducted four missions to the US over the past year to lobby for SA to retain its Agoa privileges. In part, the DA is motivated by the fact that many farmers in the DA-controlled Western Cape export to the US, enjoying Agoa privileges. 

Review in question


One of the main threats to SA emanates from the US-South Africa Bilateral Relations Review Act which James introduced into the House of Representatives in March.

It called for the full review of US-SA relations by the Biden administration and an investigation into whether SA’s warm relations with the US’s enemies were undermining US national security and foreign policy interests. The Bill passed the House Foreign Affairs Committee, but has not reached the floor.

To accelerate the reviews, James reintroduced the operative clauses of his Bill last month as amendments to the National Defense Authorization Act. The legislation authorises the massive US defence budget and has to be passed fairly promptly.

James’ amendments on South Africa were passed by the Republican Party-controlled House. They now have to also be adopted by the Democratic Party Senate. Negotiations to reconcile the House and Senate defence authorisation Bills are under way.

The formation of the GNU has created some ambivalence among Republican legislators about this legislation. Coincidentally, but perhaps significantly, the amendments by James to the Defence Authorization Bill passed the House on the very day the GNU was formed. That has prompted some concern that a full review by the administration into US-SA relations could undermine SA’s Agoa status just as the GNU is beginning to restore US confidence in SA.

However, some supporters of James’ legislation believe that a thorough US examination of SA’s relations with Russia, China and Iran — including a probe into untested allegations that some of them might have been meddling in local politics — could still be useful.

Eckart Naumann, an independent economist and associate at the Trade Law Centre, told Daily Maverick that an investigation by the US administration into US-SA relations, even if it concluded that SA had undermined US foreign policy and security interests, would not necessarily lead to SA being kicked out of Agoa.

“Perhaps put on notice, perhaps warned, perhaps monitored even more closely. I don’t think that it’s in the best interest of the US to kick SA out — as tempting as it may be. It would come at too high a cost, politically and to business, both domestic and foreign investors.”

Naumann is also not convinced that James’s legislation will pass in the Democratic Party-controlled Senate.

Best hope, Democrats


Hanging over the whole debate is the uncertainty about the outcome of the presidential elections. Biden’s withdrawal from the contest has raised the hopes of many South Africans that a Democratic Party candidate — either Harris or someone else — will defeat Trump, who remains ahead in the polls.

Trump’s position on Agoa and relations with SA more generally is unknown, but most commentators suspect his positions would be less favourable to SA than those of any Democratic president.

Donald MacKay, the CEO of XA Global Trade Advisors, believes that SA-US relations, including SA’s continued participation in Agoa, depend very much on who becomes the next US president.

“I think if it’s Trump, our prospects are fairly slim. If it’s anyone but Trump, then probably quite a bit better. I think that affects the outcome of all of this more than anything that Tau can do.”

MacKay adds that, “All bets are off if Trump wins. Firstly, he’s just wild. No one knows what the hell he’s going to do.

“He doesn’t appear to have any sort of principled stance on anything. So, I have no idea what he would do.

“I would just say that the chances of renewal [of Agoa] under Trump are far less than they are under a Democrat president.”

MacKay also believes that the formation of the GNU is a positive. “I think the perception is that the GNU makes the government more business-friendly and more investment-friendly. Whether that is reality, it’s just too early to call.”

He believes the fact that the DA has an agriculture minister, a deputy trade and industry minister and a deputy finance minister is helping to keep the US on side. DM

Comments

Paul Hoffman Jul 24, 2024, 06:56 AM

SA’s support for Hamas and the inclusion of Iran in BRICS militate against the continued SA membership,of AGOA with or without a GNU

louw.nic Jul 24, 2024, 12:18 PM

This was (repeatedly) pointed out in the DM comments...everyone, except the "Free Palestine" contingent and Minister Pandor, saw it coming.

thulanemzamo Jul 24, 2024, 07:03 AM

This article only shows one side of how South Africa benefits from AGOA, then depicting RSA as a beggar, also tries to make the DA a saviour of some sort. Well AGOA benefits the USA just as it benefits us, it gives the Americans a market for business and supply chain ventures, AGOA will continue.

Andrew Blaine Jul 24, 2024, 07:26 AM

Any change in the AGOA relationship would probably destroy the automotive manufacturing industry which has already seen the emigration or withdrawal of financial support. Ask VW? Again, the loss mainly affects the common South African The power of delusion?

D'Esprit Dan Jul 24, 2024, 07:48 AM

It does benefit the US, but to a much smaller extent than it does us. The point is, our economy has tanked, construction at a level it was during Covid (!), mines & farms can't export because of our ports and rail etc etc - can we really afford to risk AGOA just for the sake of global grandstanding?

sim Jul 24, 2024, 12:14 PM

The myopic ANC vision has been (I'm hoping there's change) dangerous to our relationship with the USA, and AGOA, just for currying favour with Russia and Iran! How stupid and narrow sighted was Pandor!

D'Esprit Dan Jul 24, 2024, 04:07 PM

Yip, but when you live in an ivory tower, with power, water and a blue light brigade to ferry you around, why do you need to worry about ordinary people, when you can grandstand with fellow 'revolutionaries'?

Malcolm McManus Jul 24, 2024, 07:49 AM

I am hoping AGOA will continue. I am hoping this GNU will produce results both for better external relationships as well as improve conditions internally for all people in SA. Create an atmosphere of co-operation and positive change. Our past performance has been undeniably dismal.

Steve Broekmann Jul 24, 2024, 08:31 AM

This sort of rationalisation of continued cozying up to Putin is dangerous. We need AGOA far more than the USA needs us. If the Republicans control Congress next year, one more Lady R incident means we can kiss AGOA goodbye. It is not enough that the GNU exists. The GNU's actions need to signal a material shift in foreign policy - away from the anti-democratic trajectory of the last few years.

cwf51 Jul 24, 2024, 11:10 AM

I can support Andrew Blaine's comment - Trying to buy a simple battery cable from VW would cost R1600 deposit plus diff after import tax. Had one made up locally for R25. RSA will suffer immensely with AGOA collapsing - USA does not NEED AGOA, but RSA does. Stuff from China is far inferior.

Malcolm McManus Jul 24, 2024, 07:04 AM

It would be interesting to see what impact losing out on the AGOA agreement would have on our exports. Obviously we would lose the benefit of duty free imports into USA but we may still be competitive. Wine would be a middle to upper income market so increased price in US may be less problematic.

jbest67 Jul 24, 2024, 07:05 AM

The GNU will take SA to a better place. Maybe not the place where we can turn townships into cities, and rural areas into bread baskets . But DA in particular is a party that is founded on integrity, efficiency, and good governance. Such stuff will rub off on the ANC, which is a party I voted for

Alan Watkins Jul 24, 2024, 09:34 AM

And the car industry? SA exported R22bn of cars and components to USA under AGOA in 2022

jbest67 Jul 24, 2024, 12:20 PM

Sadly, our ANC govt chose to go to China. While USA could have been a life line for our economy. USA is very advanced economy and we could have been a net exporter to USA. But the confused foreign policy of ANC chose China, while China is not as advanced and resulting in the destruction of textile

Glyn Morgan Jul 24, 2024, 11:54 AM

The ANC has just signed the Public Procurement Act into effect. How racist can one get!!

jbest67 Jul 24, 2024, 12:17 PM

This act should be challenged in court if it contravene any of our constitutional law

guy.wuyta Jul 24, 2024, 07:15 AM

You reap what you sow: the pro-Russian stance of SA gov : refusing to condemn the genocide in Ukraine, military exercises with Russia during the war, seems more important than good relations with your investors...

guy.wuyta Jul 24, 2024, 07:15 AM

You reap what you sow: the pro-Russian stance of SA gov : refusing to condemn the genocide in Ukraine, military exercises with Russia during the war, seems more important than good relations with your investors...

Ndabenhle Ngubane Jul 24, 2024, 11:10 AM

But... South Africa has remained neutral in the matter to avoid taking sides. How are we now pro-Russia in the Ukraine conflict when Ramaphosa has personally asked Putin to resolve the matter in a peaceful manner?

Patricia Betterton Jul 24, 2024, 07:18 AM

Hope no one is going to be offended by this one-sided reporting of Trump being ‘wild’ and ‘Unpredictable’.

Malcolm McManus Jul 24, 2024, 07:52 AM

Actually, I think he is very predictable. He normally follows through with whatever comes out of his mouth.

D'Esprit Dan Jul 24, 2024, 09:08 AM

Problem is that you never know what will come out of his mouth.

MindScape Jul 24, 2024, 10:08 AM

Yup, just look at that impressive border wall that he got Mexico to pay for. And also, that time that he joined the insurrectionists that he riled up on January 6th. The man managed to lie more than 30 000 times during his presidency alone...

Roddwyn Samskonski Jul 24, 2024, 10:52 AM

Especially when his foot is in it (the mouth).

Glyn Morgan Jul 24, 2024, 11:55 AM

His wildness is predictable.

D'Esprit Dan Jul 24, 2024, 07:52 AM

Best they don't view Zapiro today then! HINT: GO AND LOOK AT ZAPIRO!

Hilary Morris Jul 24, 2024, 09:08 AM

Wild and unpredictable are extremely polite descriptions of Trump. He is stupid, dangerous,

Malcolm McManus Jul 24, 2024, 09:32 AM

He was the previous president. There is a lot of evidence to prove he is not dangerous. I would argue that the world is a more dangerous place since Biden has been at the helm, or whoever has been at the helm while he sleeps. No Trump fan here. Just an impartial observation.

George 007 Jul 24, 2024, 10:49 AM

Thulane Mzamo, an American in Cape Town, is here. Trust me, it means far more to SA than to the USA. Most people in the US have little to no idea what SA is, much less where it is. AGAO is life and death to SA, and the US won't even know it's gone.

Stephen Paul Jul 24, 2024, 11:02 AM

100% There are none so blind as those who do not want to see.

Glyn Morgan Jul 24, 2024, 11:59 AM

The main thing that I see as Trumps "wildness" is his attitude towards Russia in relation to Ukraine. If Ukraine falls to Russia, which European countries will be next? Moldova? Maybe Estonia? Or Georgia? Or...or.... Trump's wildness is the least of his faults, he is DANGEROUS!

B M Jul 24, 2024, 04:32 PM

You would argue that the world is a more dangerous place since Biden has been at the helm - please provide an argument.

manie1974 Jul 24, 2024, 07:21 AM

This presupposes that trade is a one sided process vs willing buyer willing seller. If the is some “free” terms that is to the benefit of the consumer in the US as the price is then lower, more than benefits for SA.

Malcolm McManus Jul 24, 2024, 07:54 AM

Sure, what I don't know, is even without AGOA, can we still be competitive. Maybe not as competitive, but still competitive.

Glyn Morgan Jul 24, 2024, 12:01 PM

Without the racist affirmative action we would be able to compete with anybody, anywhere, anytime.

B M Jul 24, 2024, 04:36 PM

The majority (>50%) of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. They will buy what is cheapest, no matter where it comes from. If SA is not the cheapest, it doesn't matter if SA is competitive. It's a race to the bottom, and SA needs to be "as competitive", not merely "still competitive".

michele35 Jul 24, 2024, 07:22 AM

Someone must tell foot in mouth Mantashe that if he wants to remain in AGOA statements like we’ll replace the US with Russia go down like lead balloons

D'Esprit Dan Jul 24, 2024, 07:46 AM

Google 'Alvin Botes' and have a look at what our Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister - and someone I believe is the real policy formulator in government - says. He is completely over the top in wanting to re-run the Cold War. Matters not a jot what Parks Tau and the GNU do.

Trevor Thompson Jul 24, 2024, 08:34 AM

A good way to mitigate this effect would be to accord Ukraine the same attention we provide to Palestine. Both are after all worthy causes. Russian atrocities and the flagrant denial of the rights of Ukraine don't cut it.....

Malcolm McManus Jul 24, 2024, 08:49 AM

I don't think this will be as significant a factor if Trump comes in to power. He doesn't want to support Ukraine either.

D'Esprit Dan Jul 24, 2024, 09:10 AM

Agreed - Ukraine's terrified of a Trump presidency. There is almost nothing in our foreign policy that aligns with Trump, so we'd need to feed his ego in other ways.

Colin Braude Jul 24, 2024, 09:39 AM

But, unlike Putin and Hamas/Iran, Ukraine does not finance the ANC

lyster.w Jul 24, 2024, 08:48 AM

Forever banging on about the colonial West and claiming they don't need "white monopoly capital" or anything Western yet they're quick to stretch out the begging bowl.

Confucious Says Jul 24, 2024, 08:54 AM

There is no down-side for SA with AGOA, only up-side. The only conceivable reason for not wanting AGOA is political ideology only. Why jeopardize trade relations with one of your biggest trading parters? Ideology will lead to lower and lower quality of imports and cheaper exports.

Malcolm McManus Jul 24, 2024, 09:04 AM

Agreed, however I believe all trade is important particularly if it involves export. North, East, South and West. Manufactured and agricultural trade, as long as it doesn't involve arms and ammunition.

David Jeannot Jul 24, 2024, 08:55 AM

AGOA has helped us created thousands of jobs in key industries, notably boat building as we have some of the best boat and yacht building companies worldwide. These jobs put money into the pockets of thousands of households and the DA recognised the necessity to maintain this key trade agreement.

D'Esprit Dan Jul 24, 2024, 09:13 AM

100%, but the champagne socialists who declare that 'we' will carry the burden of the loss of exports, are actually not sacrificing anything from their cozy ivory towers, other than the livelihoods of those who can least afford it. 'Twas ever thus, with the ideological left.

Gregory Scott Jul 24, 2024, 09:10 AM

Take a careful look at which side our bread is buttered, economically speaking, the trading numbers speak for themselves. Not cuddling up to our trading partners is illogical and will be detrimental to South Africans, very much like Cuba, North Korea.

Glyn Morgan Jul 24, 2024, 09:41 AM

Our President has just signed a racist law into effect. The "Public Procurement Act". How will that go down in the US of A"?

Colin Braude Jul 24, 2024, 09:44 AM

Worth mentioning that, during Apartheid, the ANC, in order to get into power, called for trade sanctions, no matter how badly they affected the poor while the DA or its predecessors campaigned on behalf of the poor who would have been worst affected.

Roddwyn Samskonski Jul 24, 2024, 10:54 AM

And anyone who dared to differ with the great god ANC was ostracised. Not much has changed today.

cwf51 Jul 24, 2024, 11:25 AM

Incredible how many commentors on Daily Mail's articles favor Cackling Harris (RSA have better comedians) over Trump, China/Russia over West, rich RSA citizens over the poor, etc. It shows how woke RSA citizens have become. Dems started and fueled wars in 3 locations, Trump none.

D'Esprit Dan Jul 24, 2024, 04:26 PM

Which locations did the Dems start wars in? And how is favouring the rich, woke (yoh!)? I favour Harris (or even my pug) over Trump for president; the West over Russia/China/ANC, and equitable access to jobs and opportunity. Which pigeonhole are you gonna slap me into?

B M Jul 24, 2024, 04:40 PM

Chris, please list the 3 wars started and fueled by Dems. Please list any wars during Trump's tenure as president with the US alliance partners?

markgcfriedman Jul 24, 2024, 12:59 PM

As long as SA remains Hamas's legal arm, calls for the destruction of Israel, allowing Iran and its proxies into BRICS+, the USA will see the inclusion of the DA in a GNU as tinsel. As long as the DA allows the Lamola/Pandor's stance, AGOA remains high risk, and no window dressing will mitigate it