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Ronnie Kasrils’ grotesque commentary on Hamas’ attack reveals his lack of a moral compass

If Kasrils wanted to be constructive, he would be thinking about how to get the parties to the table, and preaching moderation rather than giving an applause for terrorism against civilians.
Ronnie Kasrils’ grotesque commentary on Hamas’ attack reveals his lack of a moral compass Sun Tzu, the Chinese arch-strategist, wrote in The Art of War: “Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” Recently, Ronnie Kasrils, South Africa’s retired intelligence supremo and active militant, unwittingly proved this axiom in his speech on Hamas actions on 7 October, in which around 850 civilians were butchered and 240 taken hostage, and a further 258 Israeli military personnel lost their lives in repelling the attack. Kasrils described the Hamas action as, “A brilliant, spectacular guerilla warfare attack. They swept on them and they killed them and damn good. I was so pleased and people who support resistance applauded.” Read more in Daily Maverick: Israel-Palestine War It is unclear what sort of military tactics he is referring to, since the action was perpetrated mainly against unarmed civilians across 22 targets in Israel, including a music festival where nearly half the civilian deaths occurred. The military equipment employed by Hamas included assault rifles, RPGs, fuel to burn houses, cars and bodies, and kidnapping kits. The depravity committed, especially against women, is hardly the stuff of military legend.  Never mind, too, the subsequent, predictable Israeli retaliation, which Hamas would have foreseen and, indeed, incited. Since then, more than 17,000 people in Gaza, Hamas fighters as well as civilians, have been killed in retaliatory Israeli actions. “Damn good”, Ronnie, “damn good”. After it became clear that he had gone too far, even for a wannabe militant, Kasrils defended his comments by saying that this was in the context of an assessment of the military tactics of Hamas. “As a former MK commander who has keenly studied guerrilla war against superior forces I do assess,” he writes, “the Hamas raid which penetrated the security barrier and eliminated the IDF Gaza division as a spectacular military operation, and applaud that. My statement was not about the follow-up of an assault on the kibbutzim, which are military-defended residences, or the happening at the music festival. “I did not talk about the objective of taking hostages as part of exchange for Palestinian teenagers and women, many held without trial, as an objective, but leaving children and the elderly aside, I do accept the validity of that.” The problem is that Hamas does not distinguish quite as disingenuously as Kasrils. Of course, he is well-placed to comment on military tactics. In September 1992, Kasrils, once the head of intelligence in Umkhonto weSizwe, led 28 protesters to their deaths in trying to prematurely topple the Ciskei strongman Oupa Gqozo. The Goldstone Commission, tasked with investigating the massacre, condemned Kasrils for his irresponsible action in leading the marchers, breaking through razor wire and provoking the Ciskei forces into opening fire.  Judge Richard Goldstone said: “The leadership of the [Tripartite] Alliance should publicly censure Mr Kasrils and other persons who were responsible for the decision to lead demonstrators through the gap in the fence and thereby knowingly or negligently expose them to the danger of death and injury.”

Faulty intelligence

Not only did this run counter to the strategic negotiations then under way for the peaceful transfer of power in South Africa, but his intelligence was clearly as faulty as the haphazard tactics adopted. Kasrils should at least have known the man who commanded Ciskei’s troops was unlikely to turn the other cheek. And indeed, he did not, at great human cost. Ignore, too, that this is the same man who more recently dismissed international support for Ukraine as “US interventionism”, rejecting the condemnation of criticism of Moscow as a double standard. Even though he was in the Cabinet at the time, he seems to forget that South Africa was a stern opponent of the US-led intervention in Iraq, while supporting Russia’s unilateral intervention in Ukraine. Marx’s dictum (Groucho, not the other one), applies: “These are my principles. If you don’t like them, I have others.” Kasrils offers little insight into the art of war, more of a series of little verbal farts. But his grotesque commentary is an indication, if nothing else, of just how long South Africans have been, to use another military expression, lions led by donkeys. No one is pretending that the various governments of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu should not bear their share of the blame in bringing Israel and Gaza to this point. But Hamas is not a victim. This was an action not to force Israel to the negotiating table, but to radicalise the Middle East and upset the growing relations between Israel and Arab states. It’s less of an indication of the power of the Palestinians, than of their weakness, and of the ascendant power of the Persians as the principal military sponsors of Hamas. Given its ideology to eliminate Israel and Israelis, celebrating the success of Hamas, militarily or not, is akin to saying that the SS Einsatzgruppen of Nazi Germany were efficient and dedicated to their cause and task, never mind the moralistic horrors of such an assessment. Kasrils lauds Hamas for its strategic genius. It takes one to know one, and the reverse is also true. Fighting for peace without a plan for a political settlement is, as one Israeli has memorably described using more colourful language, like “f*cking to achieve virginity”. The basic problem is not the bad Israelis, as Kasrils and fellow travellers would have it, but the absence of a political process per se, which accepts on both sides the right for each to exist.

Attempts at negotiation

[caption id="attachment_1974557" align="alignnone" width="720"]kasrils hamas attack ‘I said that you will never get a better deal. Let’s change history together. But he said “I will think about it” and never came back to me.’ Ehud Olmert on Mahmoud Abbas. (Photo: Greg Mills)[/caption] Since the collapse of the Oslo process, serial attempts at negotiations have been tried, and failed, most notably at Camp David between the government of Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat’s PLO. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert also tried a bold solution at Annapolis in 2008. “I begged him [Mahmoud Abbas] to accept the deal,” recalls Olmert. “I said that you will never get a better deal. Let’s change history together. But he said ‘I will think about it’ and never came back to me. We have many good reasons to be pissed off. At a crucial time, Palestinians failed to respond. Then, over the last 15 years we did everything to ignore them.” Whatever the challenges of negotiating with the Palestinians, “You don’t have to hate Israel to know that you have to pull out”, Olmert says. Understanding why these attempts failed, and putting that right is much more useful than any pointers on insurgencies from Kasrils, the student of guerilla warfare.  “We have to accept our mistakes,” says Olmert, who later served a prison term for corruption. “They missed every opportunity but we helped them to miss, and in so doing created bitterness, cultivated and worsened by the regional states.” There is much to criticise about the demanding, undiplomatic and insensitive transactionalism which has, from time to time, characterised the Israeli approach. But this is not part of the concern of Hamas, the organisation that Kasrils lauds. They are not interested in a two-state solution; only a one-state solution without Jews. One would have thought that a man supposedly committed to democracy in South Africa would have got that difference, maybe… Netanyahu is the embodiment of a tendency towards short-termist actions, and a belief that the Palestinians could be divided between Hamas controlling Gaza and Fatah the West Bank, and thus ruled.  The breaking of the social contract between the Israeli public and Netanyahu’s right-lurching government will no doubt be on the Israeli domestic political agenda once Hamas’ military capabilities are given a hammering, if not crushed, over the next month. While we wait for the moment of peace to emerge, still more civilians will die. If the Israelis have to learn to be patient and build trust, the Palestinians have to revise their anti-Zionist identity that frequently flows into anti-Semitic stereotyping, as Heribert Adam and Kogila Moodley noted years ago, of the worst kind. Hamas’ actions represent this kind. To support this is to support the destruction of the state of Israel. Never mind that this is as unlikely as it may be polemically appealing, the irony is that Hamas reminds us of the fundamental purpose of the state of Israel: to create a safe haven for Jews in the wake of the Holocaust. How quickly this imperative has been forgotten in the slogans against Zionism, which started well before this latest war. If Kasrils wanted to be constructive, he would be thinking about how to get the parties to the table, and preaching moderation rather than giving rah-rah applause for terrorism against civilians, and his feeble attempts at moral equivalence in criticising the Israeli response. Writing this on the ground on the Israeli border with Gaza, the constant banging of artillery to our backs, helicopters chattering overhead, armchair military theory and commentary seem a world away. As another — far more serious — student of guerilla warfare, Mao Zedong, said: “Evil does not exist in guerrilla warfare but only in the unorganised and undisciplined activities that are anarchism.” What the world witnessed on 7 October was a feast of brutal anarchism, not a military action worthy of serious evaluation. A simplistic morality play of the sort driving Kasrils’ “analysis” is not only off the mark and nihilistic, but also pathetic and sad. He so desperately wants to be remembered as a revolutionary. But he will instead be remembered as callous and confused, absent strategic nous, ranting and raving, wheeling and tilting. He has entirely lost his moral compass, if ever he had one. DM   Dr Greg Mills is with The Brenthurst Foundation and wrote this from Israel. www.thebrenthurstfoundation.org
Greg Mills
By Greg Mills
11 Dec 2023
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Sun Tzu, the Chinese arch-strategist, wrote in The Art of War: “Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.”

Recently, Ronnie Kasrils, South Africa’s retired intelligence supremo and active militant, unwittingly proved this axiom in his speech on Hamas actions on 7 October, in which around 850 civilians were butchered and 240 taken hostage, and a further 258 Israeli military personnel lost their lives in repelling the attack. Kasrils described the Hamas action as, “A brilliant, spectacular guerilla warfare attack. They swept on them and they killed them and damn good. I was so pleased and people who support resistance applauded.”

Read more in Daily Maverick: Israel-Palestine War

It is unclear what sort of military tactics he is referring to, since the action was perpetrated mainly against unarmed civilians across 22 targets in Israel, including a music festival where nearly half the civilian deaths occurred. The military equipment employed by Hamas included assault rifles, RPGs, fuel to burn houses, cars and bodies, and kidnapping kits. The depravity committed, especially against women, is hardly the stuff of military legend. 

Never mind, too, the subsequent, predictable Israeli retaliation, which Hamas would have foreseen and, indeed, incited. Since then, more than 17,000 people in Gaza, Hamas fighters as well as civilians, have been killed in retaliatory Israeli actions. “Damn good”, Ronnie, “damn good”.

After it became clear that he had gone too far, even for a wannabe militant, Kasrils defended his comments by saying that this was in the context of an assessment of the military tactics of Hamas.

“As a former MK commander who has keenly studied guerrilla war against superior forces I do assess,” he writes, “the Hamas raid which penetrated the security barrier and eliminated the IDF Gaza division as a spectacular military operation, and applaud that. My statement was not about the follow-up of an assault on the kibbutzim, which are military-defended residences, or the happening at the music festival.

“I did not talk about the objective of taking hostages as part of exchange for Palestinian teenagers and women, many held without trial, as an objective, but leaving children and the elderly aside, I do accept the validity of that.” The problem is that Hamas does not distinguish quite as disingenuously as Kasrils.

Of course, he is well-placed to comment on military tactics. In September 1992, Kasrils, once the head of intelligence in Umkhonto weSizwe, led 28 protesters to their deaths in trying to prematurely topple the Ciskei strongman Oupa Gqozo. The Goldstone Commission, tasked with investigating the massacre, condemned Kasrils for his irresponsible action in leading the marchers, breaking through razor wire and provoking the Ciskei forces into opening fire. 

Judge Richard Goldstone said: “The leadership of the [Tripartite] Alliance should publicly censure Mr Kasrils and other persons who were responsible for the decision to lead demonstrators through the gap in the fence and thereby knowingly or negligently expose them to the danger of death and injury.”

Faulty intelligence


Not only did this run counter to the strategic negotiations then under way for the peaceful transfer of power in South Africa, but his intelligence was clearly as faulty as the haphazard tactics adopted. Kasrils should at least have known the man who commanded Ciskei’s troops was unlikely to turn the other cheek. And indeed, he did not, at great human cost.

Ignore, too, that this is the same man who more recently dismissed international support for Ukraine as “US interventionism”, rejecting the condemnation of criticism of Moscow as a double standard. Even though he was in the Cabinet at the time, he seems to forget that South Africa was a stern opponent of the US-led intervention in Iraq, while supporting Russia’s unilateral intervention in Ukraine. Marx’s dictum (Groucho, not the other one), applies: “These are my principles. If you don’t like them, I have others.”

Kasrils offers little insight into the art of war, more of a series of little verbal farts.

But his grotesque commentary is an indication, if nothing else, of just how long South Africans have been, to use another military expression, lions led by donkeys.

No one is pretending that the various governments of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu should not bear their share of the blame in bringing Israel and Gaza to this point. But Hamas is not a victim. This was an action not to force Israel to the negotiating table, but to radicalise the Middle East and upset the growing relations between Israel and Arab states. It’s less of an indication of the power of the Palestinians, than of their weakness, and of the ascendant power of the Persians as the principal military sponsors of Hamas.

Given its ideology to eliminate Israel and Israelis, celebrating the success of Hamas, militarily or not, is akin to saying that the SS Einsatzgruppen of Nazi Germany were efficient and dedicated to their cause and task, never mind the moralistic horrors of such an assessment.

Kasrils lauds Hamas for its strategic genius. It takes one to know one, and the reverse is also true. Fighting for peace without a plan for a political settlement is, as one Israeli has memorably described using more colourful language, like “f*cking to achieve virginity”. The basic problem is not the bad Israelis, as Kasrils and fellow travellers would have it, but the absence of a political process per se, which accepts on both sides the right for each to exist.

Attempts at negotiation


kasrils hamas attack ‘I said that you will never get a better deal. Let’s change history together. But he said “I will think about it” and never came back to me.’ Ehud Olmert on Mahmoud Abbas. (Photo: Greg Mills)



Since the collapse of the Oslo process, serial attempts at negotiations have been tried, and failed, most notably at Camp David between the government of Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat’s PLO. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert also tried a bold solution at Annapolis in 2008.

“I begged him [Mahmoud Abbas] to accept the deal,” recalls Olmert. “I said that you will never get a better deal. Let’s change history together. But he said ‘I will think about it’ and never came back to me. We have many good reasons to be pissed off. At a crucial time, Palestinians failed to respond. Then, over the last 15 years we did everything to ignore them.”

Whatever the challenges of negotiating with the Palestinians, “You don’t have to hate Israel to know that you have to pull out”, Olmert says.

Understanding why these attempts failed, and putting that right is much more useful than any pointers on insurgencies from Kasrils, the student of guerilla warfare. 

“We have to accept our mistakes,” says Olmert, who later served a prison term for corruption. “They missed every opportunity but we helped them to miss, and in so doing created bitterness, cultivated and worsened by the regional states.”

There is much to criticise about the demanding, undiplomatic and insensitive transactionalism which has, from time to time, characterised the Israeli approach. But this is not part of the concern of Hamas, the organisation that Kasrils lauds. They are not interested in a two-state solution; only a one-state solution without Jews. One would have thought that a man supposedly committed to democracy in South Africa would have got that difference, maybe…

Netanyahu is the embodiment of a tendency towards short-termist actions, and a belief that the Palestinians could be divided between Hamas controlling Gaza and Fatah the West Bank, and thus ruled. 

The breaking of the social contract between the Israeli public and Netanyahu’s right-lurching government will no doubt be on the Israeli domestic political agenda once Hamas’ military capabilities are given a hammering, if not crushed, over the next month. While we wait for the moment of peace to emerge, still more civilians will die.

If the Israelis have to learn to be patient and build trust, the Palestinians have to revise their anti-Zionist identity that frequently flows into anti-Semitic stereotyping, as Heribert Adam and Kogila Moodley noted years ago, of the worst kind. Hamas’ actions represent this kind. To support this is to support the destruction of the state of Israel.

Never mind that this is as unlikely as it may be polemically appealing, the irony is that Hamas reminds us of the fundamental purpose of the state of Israel: to create a safe haven for Jews in the wake of the Holocaust. How quickly this imperative has been forgotten in the slogans against Zionism, which started well before this latest war.

If Kasrils wanted to be constructive, he would be thinking about how to get the parties to the table, and preaching moderation rather than giving rah-rah applause for terrorism against civilians, and his feeble attempts at moral equivalence in criticising the Israeli response.

Writing this on the ground on the Israeli border with Gaza, the constant banging of artillery to our backs, helicopters chattering overhead, armchair military theory and commentary seem a world away. As another — far more serious — student of guerilla warfare, Mao Zedong, said: “Evil does not exist in guerrilla warfare but only in the unorganised and undisciplined activities that are anarchism.”

What the world witnessed on 7 October was a feast of brutal anarchism, not a military action worthy of serious evaluation.

A simplistic morality play of the sort driving Kasrils’ “analysis” is not only off the mark and nihilistic, but also pathetic and sad. He so desperately wants to be remembered as a revolutionary. But he will instead be remembered as callous and confused, absent strategic nous, ranting and raving, wheeling and tilting. He has entirely lost his moral compass, if ever he had one. DM  

Dr Greg Mills is with The Brenthurst Foundation and wrote this from Israel. www.thebrenthurstfoundation.org

Comments

Ben Harper Dec 11, 2023, 05:11 AM

Well given that Mr Kasris was an MK commander and the only targets they ever hit were civilian i.e. bars, shopping malls, churches etc is it any wonder Mr Kasrils applauds this?

virginia crawford Dec 11, 2023, 06:27 AM

These irrelevant old has-beens do not deserve the publicity given to them. State capture, construction mafia and every kind of corruption has flourished under people like Kasrils, helpless to understand or stop it. Intelligence supremo? More like intelligence torpedo.

peter.finkelstein Dec 11, 2023, 06:54 AM

Not sure to believe the rest of your story about this idiot who has been a Jew hater since school days (even though he too is Jewish). Fact: 1200+ were killed, not 850 No military personnel were involved until after the hollocast.

Catherine Phillips Dec 11, 2023, 07:08 AM

Thank you Dr Greg Mills for this article.

Bill Gild Dec 11, 2023, 01:29 PM

My thanks, too.

Johan Buys Dec 11, 2023, 07:12 AM

Hamas’s strategy was to trigger exactly the response to Hamas’s tactics as is happening now.

Mohammed Bashir Khan Dec 11, 2023, 07:13 AM

You forget there is an Illegal Occupation since 1948.

Rod MacLeod Dec 11, 2023, 09:47 AM

And before that, Mohammed, what was the position?

Darryl Accone Dec 11, 2023, 01:54 PM

The first written mentions of Palestine are in 'The Histories' by Herodotus of Halicarnassus, the "Father of History". A draft manuscript existed by 446BCE, when Herodotus gave a public reading of part of the work in Athens. Palestine derives from the Greek word 'Palaistine'. The second mention of Palestine in Herodotus (Book Three) is detailed and very instructive to us in 2023: "The only entrance into Egypt is through this desert. From Phoenicia ["Lebanon"] to the boundaries of Gaza the country belongs to the Syrians known as 'Palestinian': from Gaza, a town, I should say, not much smaller than Sardis, the seaports as far as Ienysus belong to the king of Arabia ..." (Translation by Aubrey de Sélincourt; Penguin Classics edition 1976, pages 204-5) Under the early Roman Empire the territory is called Palestine. By 400CE it falls under the Diocese of the East. What is unchanging through all those name changes is that Palestine is continuously inhabited by Palestinians. It was never "a land without a people".

virginia crawford Dec 11, 2023, 06:07 PM

Agree.

wedid Dec 23, 2023, 07:26 AM

A people without a land must go live as citizens of other countries. You can't just have your own country as a cult. Zionism is what happens when the wealthy feel so entitled, that they expel people from their land, and still turn around and call themselves victims

Rael Chai Dec 11, 2023, 10:00 AM

Outright lie; not sure why this is perpetuated. The state of Israel was declared by virtue of a UN resolution partitioning the land of Palestine which was prior to this run though a mandate before 1948. Subsequently the infant state of Israel was attacked by every Arab country surrounding it in order to destroy it however it survived to people like your chagrin and lives on completely legally; the areas attacked by Hamas on October 7 were included in the UN partition plan as part of Israel. Stop trying to spread baseless destructive propaganda to serve your own purpose.

dexmoodl Dec 11, 2023, 11:29 AM

pls supply from where you got your facts .

Kenneth FAKUDE Dec 11, 2023, 04:25 PM

Amy what is important here is original inhabitants and artificial inhabitants, Israel forms the latter that is why they needed man made declarations to have a claim and they only respected that part and ignored the others that declare the settlements and the occupation is illegal, it is unfortunate that if you support people who are selective in declaration from the same body you unwillingly become their useful idiot, i condemn all acts against human rights irrespective of nationality but on the same tone can we come with ideas on how millitant groups can deal with well armed America's spoiled baby called Israel, 18000 palestinian civillians dead and we still blame Hamas, believe me we blamed Hamas when 1300 Israelis were attacked and 18000 palestinians were alive later after october 7, 18000 palestinians are dead and they were not killed by Hamas, if this doesnt complete the picture then we are dealing with blind support for a rougue state motivated by everything except facts unfortunately facts are colour blind

virginia crawford Dec 11, 2023, 06:08 PM

Interesting how Israel now treats the UN with contempt.

Willem Boshoff Dec 11, 2023, 12:17 PM

I think a worthy discussion could be had on the merits of the UN-approved partition plan (in which the Palestinians were short-changed imho), but here we are 75 years later with 13 million people crammed into a space that had less than 2 million at the time. You cannot unscramble that egg (much like South Africa).

guy.lieberman333 Dec 11, 2023, 07:20 AM

An enlightening article in these shadowed times. To those who seek the true line, here it is. All the touchpoints laid out in a brilliantly written piece, hanging on the man who so thuggishly signals all the shortcomings of the ANC’s mistaken views on the matter of Israel and Palestine. Multiple Israeli attempts to make peace with the Palestinians, over decades, broadcast and documented in detail for all of recent history to refer back to. The Two State Solution, as ideal as it may be, is a red herring. All that aside, the frothy celebration of the brutality of Hamas’s 7/10 attack, and then trying to walk it back… bad form by Kasrils, but not unexpected. As they say, these events don’t happen in a vacuum.

Kanu Sukha Dec 11, 2023, 11:23 AM

Maybe you should consider the observation of M.B. Khan ... AND also note that at the same time 'Great' (sic) Britain (with the assistance of the even 'greater' US !) was also 'creating' the state of Pakistan on the Indian subcontinent! It is interesting that the author is writing this from Israel, and rather than analysing the misguided outbursts of Kasrils, falls into the same trap of presenting his own version of 'history' with selective quotes to buttress his fallacies and half truths. A return to the whataboutism rounds ... with the 'victor' (the US in this case) having the last say or 'smiling all the way to the bank' - just look at the impressive rise of the dow jones over the period this current 'war' has been going on ! I think this incest masquerades as a 'special relationship', with several 'western' states in tow ? Maybe all clients of the prostitute, parading her wares as the virgin ?

vict Dec 11, 2023, 07:25 AM

And this man with zero intelligence ran the intelligence portfolio of our country. He is a mentally very sick person

Ajay San Dec 11, 2023, 08:51 AM

Well said. He should never be allowed any publicity. He is an embarrassment to all South Africans.

Gavin Brown Dec 11, 2023, 07:42 AM

Inside the body of a very old man is a child who just loves playing cowboys and crooks ??

John P Dec 11, 2023, 08:05 AM

Kasrils is a product of the Soviets and as such idiotic comments of this nature are to be expected from him.

Bill Gild Dec 11, 2023, 01:31 PM

Exactly!

virginia crawford Dec 11, 2023, 06:11 PM

Why publish them?

Colin Braude Dec 11, 2023, 08:27 AM

Apart from Ronnie's fame as being the first "Stupid White Man" in an ANC cabinet and his failure as a minister, his military brilliance and insight was on full display at the Battle of Bisho, where Ronnie fearlessly got 28 of his marchers killed (against one soldier) and over 200 injured while remaining unscathed. His tragedy is that, while he converted from Judaism to Communism, in the ANC apartheid-style worldview, race is what counts, and — following Mbeki's turn from Mandela "rainbow nation" non racialism to racecardism — Ronnie had to out-non-jew his colleagues.

dexmoodl Dec 11, 2023, 08:28 AM

To understand both Hamas and Israeli actions against both military and civilian targets read current Israeli Military Doctrine published by IDF Chief of Staff Gadi Eienkot in 2015 can get english copy at Harvard Kennedy School -Belfer Centre , seems both are playing from the same playbook . The best analysis of the assault by Hamas i found was a video on French website LeMonde.

Alley Cat Dec 11, 2023, 08:45 AM

I have no words! The man is an idiot.

Jana Krejci Dec 11, 2023, 09:10 AM

xxx

Jehan Bektir Dec 11, 2023, 09:12 AM

If the Hamas terrorists are so brave, then why don't they crawl out of their holes and fight like men in this war that they provoked?

Kanu Sukha Dec 11, 2023, 11:38 AM

So that they can be 'slaughtered' by a 'superior' armed force like they did with the 'indigenous' populations of the Americas (now confined to tribal territories/ghettos) ? ... and building on the ashes ... the land of the "Brave and Free" (sic)! Such misguided hubris and warped logic. And colonialism, occupation, slavery and dispossession are all figments of my imagination.

Ben Harper Dec 11, 2023, 01:29 PM

Yes they are

dexmoodl Dec 11, 2023, 09:51 AM

Greg pls get Richard Morrow to handle all Israeli lobbying .He gets his point across without it coming across as spin.

joules-airbase-0b Dec 11, 2023, 09:53 AM

The bloodthirsty, immoral and vicious utterances of an antisemitic ANC goon like Kasrils should come as no surprise. Everyone knows the ANC is populated by intellectually limited and morally bankrupt cretins who casually hate Jewish people, so one of their halfwits spewing hateful bile is only to be expected. Kasrils was no better than a terrorist himself so it's completely relatable that he will show sympathy for other terrorists who also lack a moral compass.

Rod MacLeod Dec 11, 2023, 09:56 AM

Don't worry Ronnie - you still have a place. Somewhere out there, there is a village missing you.

datsun78 Dec 11, 2023, 09:57 AM

The pro-Israelis argument for their indiscriminate bombing of Gaza is that they are bad people too and have no moral compass, why should we... very sad. A reminder you can not bomb an ideology, you will just bolster it. ( 15k+ people dead accordioning to the times of Israel )

Jay Vyas Dec 11, 2023, 09:59 AM

What Kasrils has forgotton is that HIS VERY OWN BELOVED ANC, has labelled him an ANC FACTORY FAULT! Added to that, he still has HALLUCINATIONS of SOVIET, COMMUNIST IDEOLOGIES, that have FAILED ALL OVER THE PLANET! As for being an ex ANC Intelligence Minister or whatever, IT IS, and STILL REMAINS A JOKE to have the 2 words, ANC & INTELLIGENCE in the same sentaence! I Rest My Case!

Nathalie Kaunda Dec 11, 2023, 10:30 AM

Your description of the events of October 7 do not tally with what many military analysts have described, especially Scott Ritter.

markgcfriedman Dec 12, 2023, 08:43 PM

Scott Ritter is little more than a rabid antisemite and who already been booted off a few sm platforms. He is no analyst

Winston Bigsby Dec 11, 2023, 10:34 AM

Pathetic & sad indeed. Like his comrades..

Michael Thomlinson Dec 11, 2023, 10:34 AM

Ronnie has done it again! Another stupid comment by a wannabe soldier. I also remember the Bisho battle - a completely pointless operation that lead to deaths of a number of MK "soldiers". For us old SANDF soldiers, watching on TV, the MK attack was a complete shambles with MK troopies rolling around on the ground. I had never seen or been taught this tactic (one would like to keep a firm eye on the enemy and where the fire is coming from) and one has to realize that the troopies were disorientating themselves and would not be able to run properly after that! So much for RK's military prowess and it looks like he never paid attention in his Russian stratergy classes. The whole tragic story in Gaza is horrific but one has to remember that Hamas started it and deliberatly provoked Israel knowing full well that there would be a backlash. The blood of Israelies and Palestinians is firmly on Hamas' hands. For RK to commend Hamas for what they did is just being depraved. He quotes: “A brilliant, spectacular guerilla warfare attack". Yeah right, so easy to do when most of the target are unarmed civilians (which Ronnie was well versed in doing here in SA). Our common thieves are doing a better job of trashing SA's economy than MK ever did under RK's leadership.

Bill Gild Dec 11, 2023, 01:36 PM

"Depraved" is the word that best describes Kasril.

dladlav04 Dec 11, 2023, 10:36 AM

Occupation. Occupation. Occupation.

Middle aged Mike Dec 11, 2023, 12:33 PM

Constipation?

Bill Gild Dec 11, 2023, 01:37 PM

?

Anita Greenstein Dec 11, 2023, 11:08 AM

How appalling that he can applaud such atrocities. No matter which side you support the events of 7th October were sickening.

datsun78 Dec 11, 2023, 03:51 PM

he applauded them? words matter

mohamediqbalkay Dec 11, 2023, 11:29 AM

It's like the kettle calling the other black. One should ask the question who initiated the atrocities when Israel was created in 1948. And who has been killing innocent women and children for the past 78 years. The fact is colonialism and greed for power by the west and particularly Israel has led this aftermath in Gaza and Palestine. Period.one does not to be a rocket scientist to see that! Or are we walking around with blinkers?

John P Dec 11, 2023, 01:45 PM

This article was not about whether or not Israel is "occupying" a particular piece of the Middle East. It is about a has been ANC politician making comments that are admiring of a cowardly act against innocent civilians by a terrorist group.

manicm Dec 11, 2023, 05:31 PM

To isolate this article without context would be wilfully ignorant.

marc36 Dec 12, 2023, 02:34 PM

To ignore 7 million Jews living in Israel, and another 7 million calling it home, with 4000 years of Jewish history linking them physically and spiritually to their homeland - now that's isolating the context and hopefully now you will no longer be wilfully ignorant Mohsin Wadee. Can you tell a billion of your closest friends?

jrpdoidge Dec 11, 2023, 11:37 AM

This is the same clown who led a number of people to their deaths in a "spectacular raid" into the Ciskei. This was after his mob had given their solemn undertaking not to do so. I sincerely hope that he and his ANC cronies are compensating those duped into following him on that day.

Peter Holmes Dec 11, 2023, 12:01 PM

Red Ronnie, the hero of Bisho. Nasty little man who has not added anything positive to South African society at large.

John Stephens Dec 11, 2023, 12:26 PM

Shameless comment, Ronnie.

Ari Potah Dec 11, 2023, 12:28 PM

I think Mr Kasrils has far more of an idea on military strategy that the writer of this hasbara piece of propaganda - despite the writer's degrees and doctorates in matters of pure theory. "Kasrils offers little insight into the art of war, more of a series of little verbal farts." Indeed - but ad hominem, pure and simple. Much of what Mr Kasrils has to say lines up perfectly with the observations of real experts like Douglas Macgregor a retired U.S. Army colonel and US government official and Scott Ritter a former United Nations Weapons Inspector and US Marine Corps Intelligence Officer with extensive knowledge of Israel War. And get some facts right, at least. There is now a great deal of evidence to suggest that the majority of Israelis killed on 7 Oct were killed by the IDF under the Hannibal Directive in action - see the testimony of Yasmin Porat, Israeli held hostage by Hamas and released. And I know the vitriol and ad hominem responses to expect to these observations . . .

Middle aged Mike Dec 11, 2023, 02:01 PM

Why don't you cite some of the "great deal of evidence" of the majority of Israelis having been killed by the IDF?

John P Dec 11, 2023, 06:12 PM

I can find only one piece of potential evidence which comes from one of the Israeli hostages that have been released. Yasmin Porat. Her testimony is unsubstantiated but essentially she accuses IDF forces of rushing in with guns blazing and killing both Hamas terrorists and their potential victims in the ensuing confusion

Enver Klein Dec 11, 2023, 03:05 PM

Ari, most of the Pro-Israeli commentators on this site will never believe any other narrative besides that which comes from Netanyahu or the IDF. Mordechai, is the a commentator here who stated that saying the IDF killed "their own people" can be likened to deny that The Holocaust happened. He will also gladly quote "credible" Israeli Professors, but when one quotes Norman Finkelstein, his response is "poor Norman". If you haven't viewed/listened to the discussion with Scott Ritter and Eva Bartlett, please do so, it's 1h20+ long, but it's very interesting and worthwhile. Scott Ritter has been called antisemitic, but he's not even Pro-Palestinian, he points out the truth, based on facts and his experience.

Ari Potah Dec 12, 2023, 12:53 PM

Thanks for the response. I have watched the Scott Ritter and Eva Bartlett interview and I agree, most interesting. I normally refrain from commenting on DM articles - and your observation regarding Mordechai's dismissal of "poor Norman" is part of my reluctance. (and I have two of Finkelstein's books)

marc36 Dec 12, 2023, 02:45 PM

They found each other. Now the world has two more lunatic conspiracy theorists snuggling up. Holocaust deniers, 9/11 and 7 Oct elaborate Jewish plots. They even have token Jewish professors (Norman and Noam). Not hard to convince antisemites to hate Jews, they already do.

Ari Potah Dec 12, 2023, 04:37 PM

quod erat demonstrandum - a fool is one who cannot think; a bigot is on who will not.

marc36 Dec 12, 2023, 06:46 PM

Antisemites can drop Latin phrases and quote Andrew Carnegie - but they remain just plain old antisemites. Thanks for showing up Ari

mahomedkhan1949 Dec 11, 2023, 12:35 PM

Lets not talk about moral compass. Your language "850 civilians butchered .......clearly show where your bias lies. How would you describe what has been happening to the people of Palestine, both of the Islamic and Christian faith.

datsun78 Dec 11, 2023, 03:53 PM

yep, last (conservative count) is 16k people dead since the start of the Israeli invasion. the fact is , as leaders is a dismal fail .

timflack87 Dec 11, 2023, 12:43 PM

Its fine he'll stroke out soon and no one will care.

Rael Chai Dec 11, 2023, 03:23 PM

We can only hope

ahmadj7862 Dec 11, 2023, 01:18 PM

Relatively balanced article. No one should condone innocent killing whether Hamas or IDF. However I think the focus of this article is a bit skewed. Atrocities in general in Palestine & Israel didn’t start on October 7th. Israel currently occupies Palestinian land and propagates an apartheid state. I think Hamas needs to moderate as everyone has a right to live in peace in that area but some serious self reflection is needed by Israel and Israeli people and supporters. Besides the bombing of hospital, the indiscriminate use of bombs against children and civilian infrastructure. And that’s an acute problem - the chronic problem is the oppression of Palestinian people. It’s racist. It’s prejudicial. And they should have the same rights as Israelis. To live freely. To move freely. To travel. To import their own products. To fish their own waters. To have an airport. To have a power station. Let’s leave Mr Kasrils and focus on the real issues. And again they didn’t start on October 7th

Fernando Moreira Dec 11, 2023, 01:40 PM

A terrible man , once a terrorist always a terrorist !

Gavrel A Dec 11, 2023, 02:22 PM

Thank you for your good analysis.

Vic de Valdorf Dec 11, 2023, 02:30 PM

Wow, never knew that greg mils was seemingly so right wng and a liitle bit of an israel apologist. Makes no mnetion of the treatment of palestinians over the years by the IDF and settlers. And it seems like the DM has more than its fair share of Zionists, wannabe Zionist supporters and right-wingers, some of whom seem to be harking back to the past via their anti ANC comments, lot's of it personal bile directed against a person who did more for the country than all the people posting here, including myself. PS. Before I'm accused of it, I'm NOT anti semitic nor pro ANC. I like to believe that i have a balanced view but seemingly what Hamas did on 7 October was to give Israel permission to bomb Gaza back into kingdom come and kill/murder tens of thousands of Palestinians, now and in the past.

Cachunk Dec 11, 2023, 03:41 PM

What a cupid stunt.

Marlan Dec 11, 2023, 03:47 PM

I applaud Ronnie on his comments. Its rich from Greg Miller to condemn Ronnie. But what about the thousands of innocent Gaza civilians who are dying at the hands of the Israeli military? Hamas has done in retaliation what is being done to them and continues to be done. I share Ronnie's opinion.

Gilda.galvad Dec 11, 2023, 05:40 PM

Thank you Daily Maverick for keeping your moral compass

Egmont Rohwer Dec 11, 2023, 06:27 PM

As Ronnie Kasril was actively involved in the Bisho massacre where many of his ComRAIDS were killed, he should shut his food hole and keep quiet

Edgarmori Dec 11, 2023, 08:06 PM

He is a deranged senile nobody who deserves nothing less than what he applauds

Tebogo S Twala Dec 11, 2023, 11:31 PM

In order to get the right answers, as humanity we need start learning to ask the right questions. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Terrorists are made and labelled, they are do not just exist out of thin air. Nobody wakes up in the morning and decides to be a terrorist. In retrospect the I.D.F & the Israeli Government has turned itself out to be glorified terrorists parading in military uniform, backed by western countries. If one day all of a sudden 2 Million Palestinian civilians decided that they have had enough of the atrocities being acted upon them and all of them decide to join The Hamas and Hezbollah organisations, are we now going to suddenly have a different view and narrative of them being terrorists or are we now going to sit up and take note as to why the whole nation suddenly decided to become terrorists?

Dietmar Horn Dec 13, 2023, 01:02 PM

Terrorism does arise in a vacuum - in the vacuum of speechlessness between hostile political or religious ideologies whose driving forces are committed to blood revenge.

marc36 Dec 12, 2023, 02:56 PM

Ronnie Kasrils last hurrah. A bitter and grouchy old man that curses the fact that he was born Jewish.

wedid Dec 23, 2023, 07:21 AM

This story led me to investigate how all of this happened in 1948. World War 1 and 2 paved the way for the state of Israel. All they want to know if they have a right to exist cause deep down, they know that they have a right to exist, but not like they existing now, bombing people including children. If they feel the children, the disabled, doctors, Journalist and any other civilian deserve to be punished. Then they must understand that the world sees, and we now are very aware of the fight against us as "Goyim". You have made it clear that you are now at war with Humanity! What are we to do? You are also people, you have money and power...but we have hearts of fire for those you murder. We will not stand by and look.